I’m putting my X beside the Gun
Interesting, Jamaica/Politics, Personal October 31st, 2007If you are an ardent Jamacian Gleaner Reader then you’ll probably know that Snr. Supt Renato Adams is fishing for the position of Commissioner. Personally, I’d lov for Mr. Adams to get the position; alot may disagree, but i think he could curb the rising level of crime in Jamaica.
Many may quesiton and critisize his policing techniques, but crime has gotten so out of hand in Jamaica……REALLY out of hand, and the only way to counter the vicious criminals is to get cops just as vicious into the fold.
Criminals fear “Adams”, just the mention of his name has them scampering in fear….alright i was over exaggerating for a sec, but let’s face it “Renato is here to please the people and not here to decieve the people…..”
October 31st, 2007 at 11:30 am
! I agree! Crime is very rampant in this little island of ours and we need to take a stand!!! Renato is gonna “…disarm evry war and arm for the people…for the uptown, downtown, Garrison…” The X is really beside the P.M.P. (People’s Murdering Party) Lol!
October 31st, 2007 at 2:51 pm
I know Snr. Supt Renato Adams personally through his son and sister in law, him not as evil as ppl mek him out to me, if it was up to me he would have had the job long time
October 31st, 2007 at 6:42 pm
I think he’s awesome, “Mr. Adams, what about a hostage situaiton”? Adams:” Once dem tek you as a hostage….i don’t care bout you innuh sah”
October 31st, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Yeah 4 real we need Renato(or hw eva it spell) we seriously need a change. this crime thing a get out a hand.
October 31st, 2007 at 6:59 pm
i agree, poeple fraid a Mr.Adams an him can play a big part in the reduction of crime in JA.”When Renato talk no dog bark!!.LOL!!!
October 31st, 2007 at 10:05 pm
WHAT THE HELL is this renato adams lobby club …. believe me i can email all of you guys stories of FACT that would surely change your mind about mr adams … i think you all need to have a little bit more faith in our country and the people in charge of it…. if no one is falling head over heals for adams … you guys didn’t even wonder why…. both side of the fence too, even his own police officers are not jumping to his tune …ever wonder if there is a possibility we know something y’all don’t…. cho young people i am really disappointed in all of you on this one big time trust me
October 31st, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Send me those emails Uncle Bobby….gordon@gordonswaby.com
October 31st, 2007 at 10:46 pm
send me them as well through the contact form on my blog
November 1st, 2007 at 7:18 am
Anything that can stem the tide in the short term would be great, but eventually something else will have to give so that we don’t have to resort to these methods anymore. It’s so out of control and our island too small for all this crime.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:28 am
I’m in total agreement. I don’t care about whatever the hell Ammnesty Int’l says. I say bust a couple caps in those criminals’ asses and call it a day.
November 6th, 2007 at 11:42 am
even if mr adams is an evil person i just have one thing to say about all this..
in my favourite old english novel richard the third was an evil man.. but he was needed in the novel.. he was the scourge.. he was an evil individual who came to rid the world of evil and then of course the world would then get rid of the last bit of evil which was him..
not casting die on adams but i’m just sayin…
November 9th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
What I can’t understand is what the hell Jamaican people are looking for? Do you think the crime situation is like the menu at KFC? One box lunch of Adams and a few assitants to wash it down and belly full? This society is so God damned backward! Ask yourself what YOU are doing about the crime problem and not what the state is doing about it. The crime situation is not going to get any better without the entire comunity’s involvement….so stop complaining. One man alone will not solve the problem…
November 10th, 2007 at 8:04 am
One Man will cause community involvement, if there’s not a strong persistent person at the head then no progress will be made
November 10th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
really Gordon? And where did you get your Criminology PhD to draw that conclusion. If you know the history of the JCF you would understand the relationship between them and the public. To start with the JCF’s mandate from day 1 was to keep a watchful eye on the “masses” so that they wouldn’t get in the way of the elite….enuf said! It takes more than one man. It requires the cooperation of EVERYONE. One man cannot do the job!
November 10th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
I don’t need a “Criminology PhD” to draw any conclusion. History = HIS STORY….Mystery = My Story, things change, i don’t need a phD to prove how smart i am, i can come to any conclusion i want; it’s obvious one man can’t do it, but with the proper leadership, things will and MUST change. One man can foster co-operation and cause people to work together
November 11th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
And that’s just the problem with Jamaica today. Too many people who are not qualified or well read in their field have too much to say both on the micro and macro level. Yes you are entitled to your own opinion but your opinion holds no validity or water unless you are coming with empirical evidence to back it up. So unless you have some concrete evidence to show Jamaica your view will continue to be that…..just your view. What evidence do you have to support that
“One Man will cause community involvement, if there’s not a strong persistent person at the head then no progress will be made”
You can have one person at the top and the hundreds underneath set out to undermine him/her and there is not one damn thing they can do about it.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
NO, what your saying is exactly the problem with Jamaica and other places around the world today, why do i need a Dr., or some other title in front of my name to define who i am?, Nanny of the Maroons did not need a title in front of her name to lead anyone, neither did Paul Bogle, and even without such things they made changes, the so called “unrecognized people”, because of the power they commanded, they made a change. they did not need to be in any high office to make a change. All these titles are the problem, All the so called “Smart People” in parliment with there fancy titles yapping all day long, a total waste. The evidence is right in front of your eyes, you want some idiot to gain office as commissioner and sit on his/her fat ass all day, get paid and do nothing about crime in Jamaica, you CANNOT make change from an office, you have to be up and about, fancy speeches or big words won’t work for Jamaicans, they need to see action, persistence, involvement, that’s what they need, they need hope.
I still say give Renato a chance, who knows what will happen, he’s blunt with his words, but these damn human rights group people try and quite the people who are speaking there mind, your trapped in the system and not even realizing it JG, come out of the box for a second, forget the statistics, forget history, forget the PHd you have in criminology, think logically, make a fare judgement and get back to me.What exactly makes a a fact ‘a fact’…..it becomes a fact when enough study has been done, and someone with a phd documents it?
Crime in Jamaica and everywhere else in the world has changed, but the teaching techniques used to stem crime hasn’t, the books that you studied criminology in hasn’t really changed either, history is history and the future is the future, things have changed since then, don’t use what happened in the past to evaluate what is happening now, if you do that no progress will be made, don’t insult my intelligence because i did not go to school and learn about crime, what i say has substance, qualifications are not what build nations. Someone should not be judged because of what they have, but what they do, forget the traditional way, it’s not working
November 11th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
You still have not told us what evidence you have to support your argument that the one man will change the entire community. Another thing I do not have a PhD in Criminology but yes, I know a whole lot more than you to substantiate my statements. I do not beleive that if Mr. Adams or even Jesus Chirst Himself was the Commissioner that things would change without community involvement. Jamaicans have great distrust for the JCF on a whole and until that trust can be gained everything else is futile. Don’t tell me to think out of a box. You do not know what I know to make a statement to say that. I have not written anything indepth here for you to qualify me as thinking inside and not outside of the box.
Let me just say that half of the things that are happening in Jamaica are a result of exogenous shocks (including crime). Not one of these politicians, regardless of their qualifications have any control over what happens in Jamaica. That is factual! We are but a mere dot on the atlas and in some cases, not even recognised on a map. We are not in a position to do anything. We are only in a position to “tek telling”. That is a fact. Jamaica is non-competitive in every single market around this globe.
You say that a Commissioner must get up and do things….amm…what kind of things must he do? Tell me please. Another thing, you are not in a position to say that the same books being read today are the ones which were being read 20 or 30 years ago. The only way you can qualify such a statement is if YOU have read all book or most books printed at that time period as well as the ones that are printed today. Therefore, if you are trying to get at the fact that intellectuals only read books and use manuals to guide policy and life in general, then you are entirely wrong.
A lot of people are calling for hanging to resume….ha ha ha ha,…it will never happen and the Govenrment CANNOT do it…unless you would like to be ostracised like North Korea. I hear a lot of people offering barbaric methods of treating criminality…I can see these people are very backward because if they knew anything they would know that the day the try it they will have every single Human Rights organisation, from very powerful and wealthy countries, swoop down on Jamaica and start creating trade barriers and embargos on this little rock. People need to understand that some things are just bigger than their verandah!
Enough said! Some of the statements you have made are quite sad.
P.S. Yes….a fact is more credible when someone with a PhD vetos it as opposed to some high school kid who has never done any study much less STUDIES to substantiate his so called empirical evidence. Take it from me….I am in research….and that is why I can also tell you that poverty doesn’t lead to crime…a lot of people think once you are poor you will be a criminal…..another Jamaican mumbo jumbo way of thinking…
November 11th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
And another thing….3/4 of Jamaicans are criminal minded. It’s not just the man who kick down a door and shoot up a house is a criminal. A criminal is a person who cheats on their taxes and denies many people of public services and goods. A criminal steals electricity. A criminal cheats the Water Commission. A criminal knowingly takes incorrect change from an individual who makes a mistake. A criminal is one who rips of the highway barriers, telephone and cable wires for scrap metal dealers. So tell me….don’t you think we should just build a big grill over the island and lock up everyone?
November 11th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
I agree with some of the things you said, while disagreeing with others:
“…I can see these people are very backward because if they knew anything they would know that the day the try it they will have every single Human Rights organisation, from very powerful and wealthy countries, swoop down on Jamaica and start creating trade barriers and embargos on this little rock. People need to understand that some things are just bigger than their verandah!” - So true
“Let me just say that half of the things that are happening in Jamaica are a result of exogenous shocks (including crime).” - How are problem from the outside?
I still think one man can change a community and of course a country, so what your basically saying is that, we don’t need a Prime Minister
Dictionary.com defines a leader as someone who is “a guiding or directing head, as of an army, movement, or political group.” With a leader comes change, convince the people that your on there side and your good to go, more and more followers will naturally come into the fold, what the JCF needs to do is gain the public’s trust, destroy the image of them being corrupt etc, let me ask though…if not Adams, who would you reccommend Mrs. Criminology pHD lady?
Now pretaining to your last post about crimes, You can’t punish a man/woman who steals light the same way you’d punish a man who cut my head off . You deal with each crime differently, give the man who steals a warning and send him off.
Also you might be the big lady with the phd, and me the 17 yr old High School student with no qualifications, but again what i say has substance, i still have alot to learn, but i think i’m doing a good job so far, your supposed to be 23 years smarter than me, and i think i’m doing a pretty darn good job by taking on someone twice my age, if i’m this way now Imagine me in the next 5-10 years. I’ll grow and mature over time, and all that i say here will stay here, i can review it over time and grow from this, i still have alot to learn, but one’s thing for sure i am MAKING strides
November 12th, 2007 at 7:54 am
Well you asked a few things so I am going to answer. You asked how the problems from the outside affected our crime problem. There are very few skill and employment opportunities in Jamaica, mainly because our island and region are non-competitive. Nobody is coming here to open up any damn factory because operating costs are too high. Therefore, you have a lot of idle hands to get up to trouble. Jamaica is a major trans-shipment point from places like Colombia and Venezuela for cocaine on its way to Europe and North America….you have quite a few people involved in this business, which, when I last checked, is illegal. There is more but those are just 2 examples.
Dictionary.com? Are you serious? Listen, having a leader is one thing, but having a damn good team is another. Do you know anything about group dynamics? Read up on how groups operate. Seems simple but I have taught people at the tertiary level who cannot even write a paper on Group Dynamics! On what basis are you making an empirical statement that one person can chage the situation? Please cite some evidence. If this was the case then we could make just about any Don the Commissioner too right? Tell us how does a leader “convince” people to be on their side. You speak as if there is some magic switch that you just flip on and off. Human beings don’t operate like that. Also, I have stated that i do not have a PhD in Criminology but I sure know a LOT more than you to substantiate my claims. Why can’t you punish a man/woman who steals light the same way you do the one who KILLS someone. As a matter of fact the person who steals light or cheats taxes deserves worst punishment than a killer. Do you know how many people they “kill” when they do that? The deny the vulnerable of many services when they steal from the state.
Age has nothing to do with intelligence. If that was the case my 50 year old helper should be way ahead in the game than myself. Therefore, I don’t know if you were trying to ridicule me because of my age and that you can “take me on” as you claim! It’s a good thing you think you are right without citing some form of empiricism because nobody else thinks so.
You did not see anywhere in anything that I wrote that Mr. Adams should not be the C.o.P. I simply said that the barbaric ways in solving the problem will not work. I won’t be going into any lengthy explanations here as I have things to do. However, Jamaicans need to stop griping and get up off their ass and DO something about crime. 10,000 men cannot do it alon. It requires a wholistic approach and person cannot make changes on their own. If that were the case then Bora would have guaranteed us a place in the next World Cup Football….instead he is gone!
November 12th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
I must agree that jamaicans (including me and you) need to stop griping and get up off OUR ass and do something about crime.Have you ever asked yourself “What am i doing about crime?” Not just what poeple in general are doing but what am I doing.
I disagree as to what was said, that people who steal light or cheats taxes deserves worst punishement that a killer. Come on…. that is just pure exaggeration. Different types of crime must have different panalties!
November 12th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Well to start with I am doing something about crime. The mere fact that I have chosen to study that category is one step in the right direction in figuring out HOW we are going to deal with something which is labelled a “police problem” rather than a “social problem”. I have always been cognisant about the fact that we ALL need to do something about it.
My view was in the 2nd paragraph and I justified why someone who cheats the system is as guilty or even guiltier than one who slaughters. I am sure if you had invested in your life savings in a bank and overnight the bank locks down with everything you had, you would feel it would have been better to have been shot right? Well when people cheat the system they hurt thousands of persons indirectly. My view is that they are worst off! Personal view.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Ok ok ..this is about adams please don’t lose focus. adams has lost his visa from England, Canada, and the USA… plus all his immediate family. Why because members of their elite police force were involved in the entire “Kraal Investigation” fact 1.
The Police federation which represent the rank and file members of the force convened a meeting with Francis Forbes the then police commissioner requesting that the CMU is disbanded immediately, yes the unit that was ran by Adams fact 2.
Adama has been implicated in far more supposedly “police murder” than any other senior officer kraal, the one off mountain view that was showed on CVM, Braeton 7, Andrew Phang from grants pen road i know two females who seriously tramtized by that event… plus several others fact3.
The Federation also had to request that psycological evalutation be done on all the constables that made up the cmu and that they be given leave with immediate effect. fact4.
seperate and a part from killing some persons and the rumours that criminals were cringing if fear when they heard his name, during his tenure as CMU chief there was no decrease in the areas of crime he was mandated to adress and in two instances two of the areas experienced an increase. fact5.
GS i agree with you that perception can become reality amongst the genral public but Adams his not the only one who makes up the police force and i can assure you that he would not have the support of the hierarchy the force nor would he have the support of the federation. If you don’t believe me ask anbyone of your father senior officer police friends.
That is all i can say publicly. Any way he not gonna get it so we can stop talking about it trust me on that he won’t even be considered.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Thanks for your tidbit Bobby.
@ JG: ‘Age has nothing to do with intelligence. If that was the case my 50 year old helper should be way ahead in the game than myself.’ It actually does, but it depends on the person who’s making use of it, you wouldn’t expect to have this discussion with my 9 yr old brother would you? Age DOES have something to do with intelligence; your helper is in the position she’s in now because she refused to make use of all those years she could have spent studying, or trying to stop being an employee and become an employer, but that’s another story; i wont get into the 4 quadrants here.
I still believe one person CAN make a change, didn’t Martin Luther King make a change?, Didn’t Nanny of the Maroons make a change, Didn’t Sam Sharpe make a change?
I knew from the beginning that Renato wouldn’t even be considered, but i thought this post could have fueled a healthy debate…and it did just that.
November 13th, 2007 at 12:14 am
You see GS i think you and JG went way off tangent with the discussion because seriously you all saying the same but just withn the scope of paralell thoughts and basically it has become in my opinion a non-sensical discussion. You are willing to support adams because you believe he can make a difference which is a perception carried by a large majority of the society, which for me is unfortunate. Because it shows to me how much controlling information can be a dangerous thing. But you do have a right to your opinion based on the information you have access too tho’ i was a bit disappointed when i read both you and Japman comments. However you have to understand that sometimes you can know stuff which i do but not necessarily be able to prove it. And this my friend is one of the major weakness of law. Thus this is the basis for adams precieved “unquestionable capablities” as a leader. Is desire to fight and eleiminate criminals are not what i question it is his leadership skills that translate into rash and dangerous situations that tends to result in loss of life and loss of trust in the JCF. Sent a email to you awhile ago do read.